I’m interested in who is flying kites and your experiences. I have an asymmetrical I fly on Hippō, to add some more controversy to things here is a photo of Hippō sailing by the lee with the kite up.
Had to recreate this after accidentally deleting the first one…
Quite a sight. I would hesitate to fly one on the Hudson with its frequent wind shifts - and my minimal crew - and my generally “conservative” approach to sailing.
If you dont mind i will see if i can entice a few more people over here by sharing your post.
'Tis a grand sight. And actually kind of traditional in a way. 150 years ago catboat racing was a big thing and they flew a LOT of canvas.
Probably my biggest reason for buying a Nonsuch was that I could do everything from inside of the cockpit and that there was minimal rigging to get tangled and cause me to leave it. You are fully and completely welcome to pass me with your spinnaker any time you like. I’ll stick to the stock configuration and take photos of you as you go by. 
Aug 15, 2022, 10:40:00 AM
We’ve been fooling around with flying an asymmetrical spinnaker on our 26C. We have been club racing and have asked PHRF to give us a rating using this spinnaker. Has anyone been successful in getting rated with a rig like this in the past? we are running into some resistance …
This spinnaker is actually smaller than i would like…its just what i have at the moment
Before I a lot of push back, on making a simple boat complicated, this was intended as a light wind rig. The day the photo was taken we were sailing boat on boat with a C&C 34 with 2 sails flying and they couldn’t catch us! we were sailing in 9-10 knots of wind
Aug 15, 2022, 12:37:15 PM
Frankly, John, your boat looks fabulous with that kite. Pretty as a picture and a perfectly smart way to deal with light winds. I have never flown any sort of kite or DRS on my NS22 but plenty of other Nonsuchers have. I don’t think that you are “complicating” anything - I think it’s an innovative idea.
I should know this (or should I ???) but this rig doesn’t require a spinnaker pole, does it ??
Given the right conditions, I think it’s a damn good thought. All of that said, I would be more wary of flying a kite PLUS using the main, at the same time. Somehow, I find that notion a bit scary as our unstayed masts are built to handle all kinds of force coming from a mainsail, driven by a good wind. Two sails, however, just might be pushing it.
Once again - not my area of expertise. Nice spinnaker !!
Ernie A. in Toronto
Aug 15, 2022, 1:13:08 PM
Thanks Ernie…we love the boat! No pole on this now. I’m looking at this as an option to allow us to pull the spinnaker around so i can sail it more directly down wind. This would also allow for the use of two sails …:). This sail is smaller ft2 than my mainsail so I’m not worried in light air about damaging the mast at least with one sail only and in light air. Looking for another good used asymmetrical. The one i have now has a luff of 37 ft. I’m think we need to be about 43ft luff to maximize the rig.
Aug 15, 2022, 1:43:40 PM
Fittings, sheets , snatch blocks etc NO POLE NIT USED WITH A BLOOPERwere available as an option when Nonsuch were built
This allowed for a Blooper to be be flown together with the mail whilst running down wind
Some advantages were gained doing so - mainly reduce rolling whilst running down wind
A definite increase in speed resulted however when racing a penalty was applied
Certainly no problem flying a blooper as far as mast strength etc is concerned just ensure you have an experienced crew on board whilst doing this( I strongly recommend the latter)
If you contact your local sailmaker they may have an old blooper lying around
Safe Sailing
Cedric. Single Malt. 26C #207
Chester Nova Scotia
Aug 15, 2022, 1:51:38 PM
Having sailed all types of boats including trimarans, I really do like the performance benefits of spinnakers. They would of course add complications to the sailing end of it, but that applies to any vessel. Some folks prefer the simple casual form of sailing, and others enjoy the challenge of squeezing the most out of the wind, and their vessel. I believe this idea applies to every form of nautical design including free standing rigs with a wish bone boom. I have an asymmetrical sail from a previous boat but do not have a spinnaker halyard on my N22 mast, or I would have already tried it out. I have considered that it would require more effort and complications as well as occupying a lot of precious storage space on my N22. If those compromises aren’t a problem then I would say go for it as that may add some excitement to your sailing. My personal rational would be my dread of an unplanned gybe, which just seems to be a boat not under full control. All my experience tells me that a sailing situation that is not under control is in the danger zone.
IMHO there is no problem flying a spinnaker, however I feel it’s best application would be on longer sails in more steady winds, otherwise you’d spend a lot of time hoisting and dousing sails. As Ernie wisely cautioned, I would agree that it’s not prudent to fly both sails at the same time so unlike a sloop rig you would be dousing your primary sail while flying the spinnaker, and that would make for a lot more work and co-ordination. I think every one’s boat should be what they want it to be, however I’ve known many who purchase a boat with no real understanding of their own needs and then try to morph their chosen vessel into their own vision, most often with great expense and disappointing results. If you’d like to fly a spinnaker on your Nonsuch, please do, however if spinnaker sailing is your priority, then you might consider a different design.
Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation)
Ron Weber
N22 Magic Time
Punta Gorda Fl
On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:37:15 PM UTC-4 Ernie Abugov N22 - #56 “Moustaches” Toronto wrote:
Aug 15, 2022, 2:15:05 PM
Thanks Cedric, I was not aware that you could factory rig a Nonsuch with a spinnaker. I have never see this on any of the literature…good to know. We already enjoy a fairly high PHRF rating (226 currently). I’ve heard a suggestion of 6 seconds penalty, which i have no problem with . We haver a 20 mile race coming up in a couple weeks which is almost always a down wind race for 2/3rds of it. Might be a nice place top try it out depending on the wind.
Aug 19, 2022, 10:07:15 AM
A Nonsuch 26 should be able to overtake larger boats when on the run with her regular sail as long as the mainsheet is long enough to permit the boom to go to 90 degrees and even beyond 90. The choker needs to be eased to create an airfoil. It is very satisfying overtaking a fully manned yacht with all hands trimming sails when one is passing them single handed with little to do.
The one weakness is the fixed choker block on the mast when running on the starboard gybe. If I continued using a wishbone, I would have switched it to a flip flop Harken. (See photo) which aligns the choker with the sheave. I used one of these mounted on the cockpit combing to replace the original Schaefer stand up block which prodded me in the back too often and finally hooked my sweater pinning me to the seat. I had to remove the sweater to extract myself. The flip flop solved the problem as well as removing the the risk of the block failing causing the wishboom to flail until it is lassoed. I had the bitter end of the mainsheet anchored elsewhere so at least I could control the boom if the block failed even when single handed. Fortunately it never did.
I would not be tempted to add a spinnaker. It has no appeal to me. It has to be stored somewhere along with its sheets and needs to be put away dry otherwise one is inviting mould down below. Bloopers were a passing fad in the early days until they were found to benefit sailmakers far more than Nonsuches. That was the advantage of a Nonsuch. Its standard rig without stays made it very efficient downwind. I like spinnakers on other boats. They make the sea scape more colourful.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C 1
Toronto
Aug 24, 2022, 12:31:48 PM
Hi Cedric
Thanks for your response. Do you have anything, showing that it was an option from Hinterhoeller? any literature or anything? I’m trying to get a PHRF rating and the local committees are saying it is a major modification and hitting me harder than i think is fair, 27 seconds at this point and the spinnaker is smaller than my main sail!?? Anything would be helpful. You sound like you know for a fact this was a factory option. Thanks
On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 1:43:40 PM UTC-4 Cedric Guthrie wrote:
Aug 24, 2022, 5:09:21 PM
John,
If you’re an INA member, you should’ve gotten a copy of the Nonsuch Registry 2022 edition. If so, you’ll find on page 73 a copy of the Hinterhoeller Running Rigging Specifications for Nonsuch 26s which shows that blooper halyards and sheets were an option at least as far back as 1981. That’s the date on the factory materials.
Don’t know for sure, but that might help.
In case anyone else is interested, the same is true for 30’s and 36’s. For some reason, they’re not mentioned in the material for 22s and 33s.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch 26U #233
Aug 24, 2022, 9:04:33 PM
That’s why people don’t fly spinnakers on Nonsuches – the PHRF change!!
Joe Valinoti
S/V iL Gatto NS30U #221
Sea Harbour YC
Oriental, NC USA
Aug 26, 2022, 4:30:06 PM
Thanks for the tip Bob. That was helpful. I also contacted Mark Ellis Yacht designs to see if they could shed some light on this as well.
Aug 27, 2022, 9:21:33 AM
Good Morning,
Sorry for the delay in my response regarding “Blooper” extras.
I have been able to talk to the broker who sold the Nonsuch line int his area and he was able to verify that “Blooper Gear” were extras from the factory
Swivel Block and Shackle attached to the crane on the front of the mast.
Suitable length Halyard complete with shackle ( Some folks consider this a spare main halyard which is obviously not suitable at all for the mainsail.)
Stainless Eye bolt on foredeck for Blooper tack
Two swivel snatch blocks with appropriate lengths sheets.
As you say your handicap will change in the “Wrong” direction should you elect to use such an additional sail.
Also YOU are instrumental in causing a potential decrease in speed!!! - you will need additional crew(Additional Weight!!) to yourself to fly this blooper
Namely – One tending halyard – this height has to be continually adjusted according to conditions
One crewmember to tend the sheet
One crew member to tend main
Thus probably around 600 lbs extra weight.
Take your pick and Sail Safe and Fast
Cedric – Single Malt – 26C #3207
Chester Nova Scotia
Hi Cedric
Aug 27, 2022, 6:05:27 PM
Two of us, today!
John Vincent
Sales Representative
Aug 27, 2022, 6:17:16 PM
John,
Nice way to turn a cat into a bird on a calm day.
Brian
Boat-less in New England
Feb 12, 2024, 11:21:18 AM
I see the specs for the Blooper Halyard and sheets, but there is no mention of the halyard sheave. Where does that Blooper halyard go at the masthead?
Tim in STL
White O’morn NS e26U #216
Harbor Point Yacht Club
West Alton, MO
Feb 12, 2024, 12:23:52 PM
to INA Nonsuch Discussion Group
I have attached a photo of the mast head. There is a fitting on the front, i believe is for a block to attach for the blooper. In out cast we had a custom bracket made by Klaco to atach the spin halyard.
John & Sue Vincent
Salem, 26C
Picton, ON
Feb 12, 2024, 1:49:49 PM
I had Blooper for a while on my 25. Had a sock and was easy to launch and fly…BUT over 9 knots apparent it drove the bow down 3/4 of the wat tp the top rail. And was largely blanked by the main event so you must drop the main. All in all not worth the ost and effort IMHO. I never seen one used…
A gennacker, that to me might be worth trying but $$$$$.
As for PHRF, you’d race in Spinacker vs JAM I assume… about 6 to 10 seconds is kinda the range. Barb Melanson might be able to help as she races her Nonsuch . Jack Lombard as well.
Feb 12, 2024, 2:42:12 PM
As mentioned above, the main significantly blankets the flying sail making it practically impossible to fly both sails at the same time. I plan to experiment this year with a bow sprit to push the tack further away, hoping to reduce the blanketing. Also, it suspect if i reef the main, it should allow additional wind to pass and fill the spinnaker . I haven’t tried this yet … 
John Vincent
Salem 26C
PEYC Picton, ON
Feb 12, 2024, 3:59:54 PM
John -
The thing that I wonder about is the much-increased force on the unstayed mast from two sails as opposed to one, Granted, when flying just the main in perky winds, there is a fair bit of strain and flexing but this is all calculated in the design. And, if you are flying both the main and some kind of a kite, you are doing this when the winds are not blowing like stink.
I can see using a lightweight kite in light winds to go downwind - ish. It would be quieter and calmer than the mainsail (and boom) possibly dinging against the mast, etc. Yes, it could/would involve more “stuff”, etc. I, personally, would not feel that comfy with two sails up in any sort of genuine wind.
(Full disclosure: I have actually been wrong before.)
Ernie A. in Toronto
Feb 12, 2024, 4:10:11 PM
I actually only see a use for the spinnaker in light air conditions when you want all the sail area you can get. As we know, these tubs can be challenging to get/keep moving in light air. I think in heavy wind, you will loose any advantage anyway. Hopefully i can sow it off at the Rendezvous!
John Vincent
Salem, N26C
PEYC, Picton, ON
Feb 12, 2024, 10:03:02 PM
Your mention of a “kite” reminded me of this:
https://www.yachtingworld.com/extraordinary-boats/armorkite-650-kite-surfing-yacht-sailing-126194
It wouldn’t be blanketed by your main sail and it wouldn’t exert any additional stress on your mast…
Brian
– Brian Godfrey
Feb 13, 2024, 3:03:02 PM
A mechanic servicing my engine remarked that he always liked working on Nonsuches because the owners kept their boats fresh and free from mould down below. My reply was it was not so much the diligence of the owners but the design itself. The single sail and its lines are never stored below during the sailing season so there is less damp brought below. Ordinary yachts have to store their flying sails and lines etc. below. They seldom have the inclination or time to thoroughly dry them out before stowing them below decks. I have never had the desire to fly a spinnaker from Mascouche. She can overtake boats flying a spinnaker while sailing single handed. Nonsuches have plenty of storage space for essential items because they do not have to make room for a wardrobe of costly and often fragile sails and sheets to fly them.
Don’t buy a Nonsuch, if you love to fly a spinnaker.
John Newell
Mascouche 26C #1
Toronto
I’d had read most all of that on the google group and it’s shocking to me the naysayers we have in our ranks! “Nonsuch’s where not built for them, you’ll get mold… buy a different boat if you want to fly a spinnaker…”
Hippo’s Asymmetrical is over 900sqft and I think it should be bigger I have plans in the works to add a bow sprit and a new larger kite.
I do fly the kite solo and also often put a reef in when I fly it to get more air in it. But that’s no different than other sloops I’ve sailed on.
The comments in this group are not intended to discourage you from sailing SVHippo the way you want to sail her. One of the best things about sailing is the freedom to do as you choose and chart your own course.
The comments you see as negative are folks expressing an different opinion for the benefit of other owners, looking for a path that fits them. They need to hear other perspectives and figure out what works for them.
I’ve sailed and raced sloops and cats for 50 years, I’m new to Nonsuch which is definitely based on a totally different design concept than boats I know. It is challenging to get inside the head of Nonsuch designers and learn to sail the boat as designed.
Lots of boats are easy to sail, but difficult to sail well. I’m getting the feeling that Nonsuch is such a design and that sailing them to their full potential is plenty challenging for me. We’re talking about subtle stuff like balancing out forces to minimize rudder drag for an extra 1/2 a knot.
It is my opinion that adding the variable of a spinnaker on a Nonsuch would distract me from exploring the finer points of shifting gears with the cat rig in changing conditions. I’m also of the opinion that in most handicapping systems the penalties for a spinnaker would make a Nonsuch less competitive in a fleet of sloops. My sailing skills advance mostly while racing, because of the real time feedback. I’ll stick with the original design and work to master it in whatever fleet I can find in my area. Having a cruising spinnaker onboard to play isn’t out of the question, it would be a hand-me-down from one of my racing buddies.
Enjoy your time with SVHippo you are blazing a trail that pleases you, what more could anyone ask for ?
I appreciate hearing about everyone’s experiences, experiments, and tribulations. Spinnakers and all, even though I’ll never use one. I learn from them all whether I adopt them for myself or not.
I was lucky enough to sail with Bruce Clark and June Wan today - owners of Nonsuch out of Toronto/Yellow Knife. They are two very fine people and I learned a lot. I’ll probably be processing it for a while. I envy those of you in areas with a higher density of Nonsuches. You’ve got much more opportunity to learn from one-another and I hope you take advantage of it.
Brian Godfrey
Vela, NS33, San Diego
(manually copied from INA Google group)
I had one , came with the boat. Not much use as it I could only use it in apparent wind under 8 knots as over that the bow was taking on water… it really needed a pole to work and the main had to be down. Never got the hang of it…
(manually copied from INA Google group)
I can understand why Thor ditched the spinnaker. It is the last thing a Nonsuch needs and a reason that I bought a Nonsuch in the first place. A properly trimmed sail is more efficient than a spinnaker. That is why the west coast PHRF rules classify Nonsuches as sailing with a flying sail. They were fed up with Nonsuches winning the non spinnaker events. The main sheet has to be long enough to allow the boom to go past 90 degrees with the choker eased off. The trick is to maximize the airflow over the sail “wing” which lowers air pressure on the front of the sail. (Bernoulli effect) This provides more drive than having the sail at 90 degrees to the wind with no airflow.
Nonsuches do not need to store sails and sheets down below which leaves more space for storing important stuff like grog. Sails and sheets often are wet when brought below and contribute to the growth of mildew and mould. One mechanic servicing my engine told me he liked Nonsuches because the owners kept them clean and smelled sweet. I had to admit it is not the owners but the boat’s design that has to take the credit.
(manually copied from INA Google group)
Feb 25, 2025, 11:58:53 AM
I have found that if the mainsheet is long enough and you let the sail out well past 90 degrees in a strong breeze the boat will heel to windward. It can be rather exciting to say the least.
Mark Powers
(manually copied from INA Google group)
Feb 25, 2025, 12:48:10 PM
I know that bloopers were optional original equipment on many of the boats.
It might be worthwhile for those interested in spinnakers to find out what the original design considerations were for the masts, to ensure that whatever sails you choose to fly don’t exert forces beyond what the masts were specified to handle.
My guess is that leaves a lot of latitude, but I don’t myself know the details.
– Bob
Me Gusta
Nonsuch e26U #233
