My W27A is losing coolant. I replaced all of the hoses 2 seasons ago (which stopped the slow loss of coolant I was experiencing back then) and there is no indication of leaking coolant on, below, or around the engine. After running at approx 1200 rpm for an hour and a half, and then sitting overnight, the overflow bottle level had dropped by roughly 25%… it has done this previously earlier this season.
I suspect that the heat exchanger has a hole in at least one of the internal tubes and the coolant is mixing into the seawater that is being expelled. When I first started the engine prior to running it (at the dock) for that hour and a half, I noticed that the raw water exiting the transom was a bit foamy-ish looking… is seemed to clear after a minute of three to just looking like seawater.
Does anyone know of a reputable radiator shop to which I can take the heat exchanger for pressure testing/repair (filling the offending tube(s)) that is local to Stamford, CT?
Thank you,
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30U 430
Stamford, CT
Also, I contacted Hinckley Yacht Service in Stamford, CT - they said they do not recommend repairing/filling the offending tube(s) as the repairs will fail eventually. They say that they only replace the heat exchangers now (not to mention their estimated cost to test is much higher than the estimates for an automobile radiator repair shop) - thoughts on this?
Don’t know if this will help you or others, but ( HERE ) is a link to a pictorial that I found useful in understanding the challenges of maintaining Soave’s heat exchanger.
My tendency is also to pursue repairs over replacement, but Soave is slowly teaching me that replacement of parts that are at or near end of life is often cheaper in the long run and simplifies maintenance and diagnosis of future problems.
Good luck,
Rob
s/v SOAVE
NS33 #009
Cedar Point YC
Westport, CT
Identify the two engine side connections on the heat exchanger or the two sea side connections - it does not matter engine or sea. You just want to work with one or the other.
Get some hose that fits those connections. That could be the hose in service on the boat.
Place appropriate size hose on the identified connections.
Plug one hose. You could use a pipe nipple and cap of a diameter that will fit the hose. Camp plug in place. Clamp all hose connections you make.
On the other connection, install a pipe nipple, coupling and bushing to get to 1/4" pipe size female. insert a 1/4" pipe nipple. To that nipple connect a 1/4" pipe tee. In one of the other tee connections install a 1/4" mpt X Schrader valve (connection for a bicycle air pump). In the other connection, install a 0-30 PSI pressure gauge. Use pipe thread sealant on all threaded connections. Hardware store or online for all the parts. I’d for sure go online for the schrader valve and gauge.
Connect a bicycle pump to the schrader valve and pump until the gauge reads 20 PSI. Remove the bicycle pump and cap the schrader valve.
Does the gauge pressure hold steady? If so the HX does not leak.
Does the gauge pressure fall? Get some soapy water and coat all the hose and fitting connections you made to rule out external leaks. Coat all of the hose as well. There could be a hose pinhole. If you find external leaks in the hoses and fittings you assembled. Fix those leaks.
Once your work is leak tight, if the gauge pressure falls, buy a new heat exchanger direct online.
Hi Rob,
Thank you for the above. I have found Rod Collins’ information to be very useful over the years, and used this particular article years ago to guide me when I realized the end caps on the heat exchanger were leaking, etc. Rod didn’t say anything negative about pressure-testing/repairing, so doing this provides an extra few+ years, I may just go this route right now, if I can locate a competent shop in the Stamford area… we’ll have to see what the results are from testing. I just don’t know at this time if the heat exchanger is the problem. I have to read the Westerbeke bulletin that Joe Valinoti mentioned above to better educate myself.
But, my instinct in many cases is the same as yours - with the majority of parts being 38 years old, it is making more sense to replace.
Catch water from overboard cooling discharge and easy then to see if coolant there
2 Get Cat or someone to do oil sample test- it has been known for Westie’s to have a leak from cooling into lube oil
Safe Sailing
Cedric. Single Malt 26C #207 Chester NS
If you have a water heater in line, that can be the source of the problem. I once loaned my pressure sensor to a friend who was losing coolant. When the pressure dropped, I assured him it was the exchanger. Turned out it was the water heater.
On a Bristol 38.8 I once owned the loss of coolant problem was a minute cylinder head crack!
Don Ringsmuth
Selkie 30U 425
Traverse City, MI
You could do one or two tests
Catch water from overboard cooling discharge and easy then to see if coolant there
2 Get Cat or someone to do oil sample test- it has been known for Westie’s to have a leak from cooling into lube oil
Safe Sailing
Cedric. Single Malt 26C #207 Chester NS
I replaced my heat exchanger in 2021. It had some pinholes in it; salt deposits around bronze hose fittings, I suspect due to PO not checking and changing the zinc often enough. I decided to simply replace the whole unit and got my mechanic to do it. If you have the new part in hand, plus new long-life diesel coolant, then the mechanic only has to make one trip to the boat. Be sure to flush the whole coolant system.
I bought my heat exchanger from Mr. Cool (www.mrcool.us) cost was US$485, plus shipping. I believe they manufacture and supply these to Westerbeke as well. With shipping to Canada and UPS brokerage fee, it was somewhat costlier.
And, don’t just throw away the old heat exchanger. I took mine to a metal recycling place and they gave me about $25-$35 for it. Depends on the price of copper at the time.
If I can get the unit tested, and it shows a leak, I will replace with a new unit and not repair. I am tempted to just replace, but may regret that decision if once replaced the coolant loss continues…
Joe V - Unfortunately, I am not able to locate the Westerbeke bulletin re locating the coolant leak - when I search their site approximately 300 PDF’s come up and most are manuals…
Will heed your input and replace if leak is found.
Ward - the end caps are not leaking and I replaced the gaskets/o-rings for them last season.
Thor - thank you for the links
Cedric - good suggestions. As noted originally, I did notice some some ‘foaminess’ in the raw water discharge when the engine was started. I will attempt to capture some of this discharge in a bucket to check to see if it is coolant. The oil, which I changed at the winter lay-up, appeared to be fine, but I will re-check for signs of water/coolant intrusion (fingers crossed it is not this…)
Don R - no water heater in this circuit, but a good thought.
Don C - Found Mr. Cool the other day - unit is now $545 (not a bad increase after 4 years), but their reviews are a bit mixed. Have you experienced any issues with your replacement exchanger?
Also found Lenco Coolers in West Babylon, NY - slightly less expensive for a replacement cooler, and more consistent reviews… has anyone used this shop?
HI Peter,
If you are simply trying to determine if you have a leak between the coolant and seawater circuits there is a simple way. I learned it from a fisherman when my coolant ran out in Canso a few years ago. Put some red food dye into the coolant reservoir, along with whatever water you need to top it up. Run the engine. If you have reddish water coming out of your exhaust you will easily see it. My problem was corroded copper tubing in the core inside the heat exchanger body. If that’s your issue you may be able to just replace the copper core , if the rest of the unit is ok. You may even be able to get this from a local radiator shop if not from a marine dealer.
Greg Silver
Misty Cat, 26C, #121
St. Peter’s, Cape Breton
Nova Scotia
Again, I want to thank everyone for the input, and the most recent input:
Thor - thank you for the bulletin - that would be quite concerning.
Don C - thank you for sharing your experience with Mr Cool. I went ahead and ordered from them as the other shop with solid reviews has still not responded to my inquiry of several days ago (what business still uses a ‘HotMail’ email address? _ I gave them a shot..)
Capt Greg - thank you, that is a very smart idea!
I modified Capt Greg’s test method, as I removed the heat exchanger ,and taking a calculated risk , ordered a new one on Friday. Once home with the heat exchanger I made sure as much of the water and coolant as possible was out of the unit. I made sure all of the raw water connections were closed off except for the main entry. I then used some dark red berry cocktail (I didn’t like the flavor anyway so it was sitting in the fridge) and slowly/carefully poured into the raw water intake pipe. after letting it sit for a while, fluid did come out of the coolant side pipes with an ever so slight red tint to it. I drained the unit again, and retested two more times with the same result… some slightly red tinted fluid. Not a lot, so it must be a pinhole or 3, but fluid where none was coming out when drained.
This, combined with the slightly green exhaust water captured in a bucket (when compared with a bucket with roughly the same amount of water collected from alongside the boat - surprisingly clear) when first starting the engine on Friday, has me reassured that the decision to not let anymore time pass (or spending $'s having the old unit tested) was 95% the correct decision. We’ll see once the new unit arrives and I install it.
Question - the heat exchanger on the W27A has a straight ‘tailpipe’ to connect the unit to the raw water pump with 7/8" hose. Hopefully with some PB Blaster and tapping of the part over a few days, will allow the old ‘tailpipe’ to be reused. Westerbeke wants $291.30US for this 2" piece of brass… NIPPLE 3/4 NPT x 7/8 HOSE part# 036838… that’s crazy! a 3/4 NPT x 1" hose, or 3/4" hose is much much much less expensive…
Do I buy the piece for the 3/4" hose and heat the hose (and use some synthetic grease) so slide it on… (there is a lip that is .935" on the end before the 7/8" pipe)
or
do I but the 3/4NPT x 1" hose and clamp the 7/8" hose extra securely (concerned about leaking) or do use a short piece of 1" hose with a 1" to 7/8" step down connect the hose?
Thank you,
Peter Grabow
S/V CAKE WALK III
1987 30U 430
Stamford CT
3/4” copper tubing is 7/8” OD. A piece of 3/4” copper tubing sweat or brazed into a 3/4” copper x male adapter will make the hose fitting you need at little cost.
I made an error in my statement yesterday - the ‘tailpipe’ on the exchanger has a hose connected to the oil cooler on the Hurth 150V transmission, not to the raw water pump as stated.
Please help clarify - this tailpipe should be bronze, not brass, correct? my understanding is that bronze is better suited and less prone to galvanic corrosion in a seawater application, especially below the waterline, as it has less zinc…
There is this one available at McMaster-Carr: McMaster-Carr this has the 3/4" tailpipe